Mines on the Objective... or Not

[PeteMoss]

So... would someone mind giving me the rationale on why we don't put mines on the objective.

This evening there were a few how were unhappy with the placement of mines since they were killed; however, there would have been more plants if not for the mines. Shooting an opponent is not as fast as taking out an adversary with a proximity mine. You could as easily get killed in a doorway should you happen to be there when a mine went off. No?

Wouldn't it make sense...

1) Plant the mine on the objective
2) Wait for the opponent to trip the mine to kill the opponent or let the mine give damage the opponent
3) Then fire to kill the opponent

What say ye Stroggers and GDF-ers?!

Thanks,
-Pete

[edxot]

Asked like that, is hard to provide a concrete answer.
In many inside objectives I used to scout for friendly mines before deciding where I should be defending.

But this does not mean that engineers are completely innocent. I had situations where I used a grenade to blow my teammate's mine.
And even worse, when I know it's just a retard trying to help the other team, I cooked a grenade to explode right when he was replanting it (everyone gets too pissed sometimes).

PS:
Related to the other thread that got locked. That decision of banning all people with 7 on the nick, may not be completely wrong.
Recently I noticed that a guy called DrJekyll was using an aimbot. It was luck, he crossed a door while shooting me. Right after, he switched to shoot someone else that was closer. Someone that was not in his field of view, or shooting him (facing other direction).
Since I am muted in TAW server could not tell anyone. So I started using a clantag saying that he cheats.
The following day, a guy called nobody-7 came to the server while it was almost empty. During 20 minutes in volcano all he did was this: grab a disguise, find me on the map, get behind me, then take off the disguise.
He was hoping that he could prove that I was using an aimbot, obviously. If suddenly I started shooting someone else and instantly turned to him that would have proved it.
Anyway, it means that nobody-7 was aware of DrJekyll cheating episode, and also that he has been using an aimbot aparently(this happened right in the following day). BTW, he probably has been using the aimbot for quite some time now. My guess is that it started right after Pliscin-7 losing his red stars in Splash Damage (if anyone remembers it, a couple of months ago).
TAW admin,dissected_remains, told me I should not state he was cheating without evidence (BTW, that's right, he who have muted me in TAW server, because I only talk sh!t, keeps talking to me in every occasion he can. So much to the point where I started ignoring his private messages).
I had no demo from the game where that happened, but dissected_remains told me he could get demo from the server. For me, this was perfect, so I told him the day. the hour, the map, the objective where he could see that DrJekyll was using an aimbot. That was the last time I heard of him.

[Transient]

My thoughts are it depends on the objective, for final objective on Slipgate sure. No one needs to be too close and proxy can be useful, last nights objective not so much. The objective in the middle of a raised platform forces players to be closer to the objective, the proxys weren't actually on the objective. They where placed on the floor of the platform, bad spot in my opinion because defenders need to run around to get planters on the opposite side of the objective. That objective is also wide open to getting naded which just pops mines anyway, it's one of those things that depends on how many people are there and which objective I guess.

[echo]

Hey Pete, Usually I avoid putting proximity mines on most objectives unless we are being overwhelmed and desperate measures are required. It sucks when a grenade or a run-by from an attacker kills a couple of teammates. A proxy on Refinery north is a really bad choice because it's so open to attack. Proxies in the ship on Quarry are bad news for defenders too. (although you have to put up trip mines, over and over) I guess proxies on build objectives like the Valley Bridge are okay because there aren't many trip mine placements available but I prefer to put them on the road to the objective where my teammates are less likely to take damage. The Slipgate covey-hack objective is the only one where I lay proxies with abandon because it's too easy to hack without them. (Apologies to my dead team mate)

[Swatt]

Often when i get pucked by a proxy is because I might be in pursuit of a enemy who is only trying to preserve a build/hack. In that case I have no advance knowledge of said planted proxies and if the hacker/builder is crafty they will set off the proxy then move around the corner to continue the hack/build leaving me/defender as the only victim. This could be avoided if the engineer/constructor notifies the team that they have armed mines on the objective in the same way they do when mining a plant so offense doesn't nade it in cover.

[PeteMoss]

My thoughts are it depends on the objective, for final objective on Slipgate sure. No one needs to be too close and proxy can be useful, last nights objective not so much. The objective in the middle of a raised platform forces players to be closer to the objective, the proxys weren't actually on the objective. They where placed on the floor of the platform, bad spot in my opinion because defenders need to run around to get planters on the opposite side of the objective. That objective is also wide open to getting naded which just pops mines anyway, it's one of those things that depends on how many people are there and which objective I guess.

Good point. Totally agree in regard to the slip gate hack. It is very hard to defend without them. I will announce mines at objective from now on when i play constructor or engineer.

[PeteMoss]

Often when i get pucked by a proxy is because I might be in pursuit of a enemy who is only trying to preserve a build/hack. In that case I have no advance knowledge of said planted proxies and if the hacker/builder is crafty they will set off the proxy then move around the corner to continue the hack/build leaving me/defender as the only victim. This could be avoided if the engineer/constructor notifies the team that they have armed mines on the objective in the same way they do when mining a plant so offense doesn't nade it in cover.

I will make sure i announce going forward and try mining the doors and hall ways instead. How do you set a trip mine when playing on a iMac?

[Transient]

Tripmines are placed by pressing and holding the alt fire as you place the mine. Same button that brings up scope or iron sights, gap can't be too wide
and can't be vertical. Some places like railings on stairs can be picky and require spamming to set mine.

[Sissyboy]

They only bother me when the team or player specifically asks not to have proxies in a certain area.

If the game is tight and the defense is playing an objective very closely, then all it does it hurt the defending team when proxies explode. And can cause much more damage to the defending team than the offense. One offensive player can use the defending players' mines against them and wipe out almost a the whole defensive team, while only causing small damage to the single offensive player. It happens frequently on salvage and sewer.

However, if a team is chasing a spawn or defending a different area other than the objective, then proxies are a necessity in my opinion.


I

[Sissyboy]

Asked like that, is hard to provide a concrete answer.
In many inside objectives I used to scout for friendly mines before deciding where I should be defending.

But this does not mean that engineers are completely innocent. I had situations where I used a grenade to blow my teammate's mine.
And even worse, when I know it's just a retard trying to help the other team, I cooked a grenade to explode right when he was replanting it (everyone gets too pissed sometimes).

PS:
Related to the other thread that got locked. That decision of banning all people with 7 on the nick, may not be completely wrong.
Recently I noticed that a guy called DrJekyll was using an aimbot. It was luck, he crossed a door while shooting me. Right after, he switched to shoot someone else that was closer. Someone that was not in his field of view, or shooting him (facing other direction).
Since I am muted in TAW server could not tell anyone. So I started using a clantag saying that he cheats.
The following day, a guy called nobody-7 came to the server while it was almost empty. During 20 minutes in volcano all he did was this: grab a disguise, find me on the map, get behind me, then take off the disguise.
He was hoping that he could prove that I was using an aimbot, obviously. If suddenly I started shooting someone else and instantly turned to him that would have proved it.
Anyway, it means that nobody-7 was aware of DrJekyll cheating episode, and also that he has been using an aimbot aparently(this happened right in the following day). BTW, he probably has been using the aimbot for quite some time now. My guess is that it started right after Pliscin-7 losing his red stars in Splash Damage (if anyone remembers it, a couple of months ago).
TAW admin,dissected_remains, told me I should not state he was cheating without evidence (BTW, that's right, he who have muted me in TAW server, because I only talk sh!t, keeps talking to me in every occasion he can. So much to the point where I started ignoring his private messages).
I had no demo from the game where that happened, but dissected_remains told me he could get demo from the server. For me, this was perfect, so I told him the day. the hour, the map, the objective where he could see that DrJekyll was using an aimbot. That was the last time I heard of him.

Thanks for the info. How did Pliscin lose his red stars, and what is the significance? I know nothing about it.

[Randolf]

Thanks for the info. How did Pliscin lose his red stars, and what is the significance? I know nothing about it.

Reputation system on Spalash Damage forums, I don't think it meant much. At least for majority of users.

[edxot]

Thanks for the info. How did Pliscin lose his red stars, and what is the significance? I know nothing about it.

This is a very long history, with many small episodes. It would require a detailed explanation of each one, to make any sense at the end. English is not my native language, and so, cutting a long story short isn't easy.

Without any evidences to present, all I can do, is present you with some of the conclusions that I draw from the previously long story.
Either one of these 2 situations have been in place since a long time ago (2010 probably).

1. A group of guys, no idea how big, from the game developers team, has been cheating at an unprecedented scale.
2. Some hacker(s) managed to find a way to infect some server(s)/router(s), to get this behavior: ICMP traffic (related to ping) goes through, but game packets are filtered, and those belonging to specific players/team are routed somewhere else before getting back from the bogus destination and being routed to the server. Or maybe the other way, of course, the server outgoing traffic is routed to a longer path then it should.

Or maybe they are both true.
Any way, I am aware the complete history is probably much more complicated, and probably has many more actors (Btw, not even talking about those other that ddos specific players. That's another story and anyone paying attention to the game, should already know who they are/were).

Either way, the end result is the same: some of the people playing the game, are lagged way beyond than what their ping suggests.

This is easily noticed when you switch weapons in-game. Sometimes it takes some time (not just a few miliseconds). Other times is like instantly.

I could tell you more stuff, to prove my points. But it would be kind of useless to you, and would tip them to fix/improve their stuff (not happening).

It was because of me, talking about this, that the other conspiracy happened. They just increased the amount of lag of everyone to an unbearable degree whenever I was on server. And also did it, even when I wasn't on server, using someone in fake nick pretending to be me.


BACK ON-TOPIC

- I feel it should be engineers by watching how their team is defending / other team is attacking that would adapt their mine placement.
- GDF engies should pay attention to the fact that strogg oppressors can explode enemy proxy mines just by deploying shields.
- Everyone else should remember that trip mines aren't always more effective than proxies. Sometimes they just can't be deployed (no good place), but above that, proxies can't be defused by enemy constructors/engineers (in most cases they can't).

[PeteMoss]

Is there a new limitation with the auto arm of the mines? I thought someone mentioned that you needed to get a certain level of experience points before this feature is enabled.

Thanks,
PeteMoss

[Transient]

Hi Pete, since the resets for everyone you will have to regain the self arming mines. Just got mine back, took a while..just keep mining

[Transient]

Hi Edxot,
"Either way, the end result is the same: some of the people playing the game, are lagged way beyond than what their ping suggests.

This is easily noticed when you switch weapons in-game. Sometimes it takes some time (not just a few miliseconds). Other times is like instantly."

Have seen this kind of effect many times, good ping but movement like running in mud and weapon change delays. Really throws of gameplay, at the same time it doesn't seem to affect some players. Don't know the reasons, don't want to speculate...just want it to stop. All this will accomplish is putting the final nail in the coffin for ETQW, there are a few new players showing up... this will drive them away. Not going to respond anymore to this subject, have read enough about it. Hope things improve!